It's almost like you haven't seen the "IF YOU NERF HISEC WE'LL JUST QUIT" reaction even if I barely suggested increasing the manufacturing costs, you wouldn't be saying that. But hey, go ahead, start up a "nerf hisec income" thread and see how many hisec pubbies will come out of the woodwork with "we'll just quit".

If these no-local threads had an OP that factored in risk/reward, they wouldn't get dogpiled so fast.

But that isn't what happens.

Instead, we get the same anecdotes about how OP can't find anything to kill in nullsec. Never mind that the reason is the OP sucks at PvP, because plenty of people get killed in nullsec everyday. Also, they never factor in how few targets there are in nullsec, because there is very little to do there besides throw big fleets at each other. The ratters that are out there can only make decent isk in ships totally designed around killing particular rats. Of course they run away, because the ship they are in are usually bad at general PvP.

So basically, OP is pissed because we use various intel gathering tool to earn enough isk to bother living nullsec, rather than happily make less isk letting OP kill us at will. And we are also cowards because we aren't stupid enough to engage random players in our gimped ratting ships. It is a short sighted change to the game that will make nullsec more interesting to day-trppers short term, and leave nullsec a barren waste long term.

Really, what do they expect to happen? That nullsec dwellers will just put up with the loses. People who can live with no-local will just move to wormholes and make more isk for their effort. Everyone else will move to empire, where they can make about the same income but with a lot less losses. And nullsec will still be owned by huge alliances, because that is what it takes to deal with the current sov mechanics, and people will still show up for big fleets as that is one of Eve's unique selling points.

various intel gathering tool to

No, it is various. It is more than 1.

Local just tells you if some one is in systems.

Player ran intel channels will (hopefully) tell you what they are flying and if they are notorious hostiles.

The in-game character info gives a lot of useful info too.

Evekill and the like will tell you if these players have any serious PvP history, what they tend to fly and what their typical targets are. Very handy for when you want to set up a trap.


The proper application of all these tools is what keeps me relatively safe when I rat and haul cargo. I would relate some funny anecdotes about players who tried to rely only on local, but I doubt you have enough nullsec experience to get the jokes.

Only more tedius gameplay can save EVE.

You must be getting used to all that earwax under your fingernails. It's almost as if you're beginning to enjoy it.

Ah, the botter fallacy, haven't seen that for a while.

It's almost as if people are actually pretending to believe that bots would be more vulnerable than humans if local were removed. But surely this is just trolling, surely people can't actually believe that fallacy.

hisec is the safe botting haven, not nullsec;

Ah, the botter fallacy, haven't seen that for a while.

It's almost as if people are actually pretending to believe that bots would be more vulnerable than humans if local were removed. But surely this is just trolling, surely people can't actually believe that fallacy.

You're dumb. Dude from Goon was funnier, he got it
Why U so mad brah

Wait that would leave your people in space blind to gankers... in less u want that on top of the local u have now.....

We do. It is called "VFK" and it is the biggest trade hub in nullsec. You are free to come burn it.


But since you guys can't even gank ratters or catch industrials on the gates, I'm not going to hold my breath on some highsec pubbie raid on our capitol.

nullsec is the riskiest space, period

wormholes have a fourth the population of nullsec but 1/20th the ship kills

statistically that makes wormholes safer than hisec, let alone k-space 0.0

We already have those. That is where most nullsec mining takes place, because even if a guy does pop into system and see you are there, you can just bring up d-scan to see if he drops probes to actually find you. If he doesn't have probes, you just keep mining away in complete safety.

Or we could just keep local and you could move to the wormhole.

I think it has been well established that we have plenty of combat going on. Nullsec has more combat that those empty looking wormholes.

Yes we do. That is the sort of combat we expect out here and many of us sign up and train to do exactly that sort of thing. We think it is fun. You think it is crap. CCP gave you a place (wormholes) that is virtually immune to blobs and hotdrops. Go to your wormhole, make oodles of isk, and be happy.

We ain't begging CCP to let us drop supers and SBUs in your wormhole, quit trying to make our space empire into lonely boring wormholes.

You're starting to dip into lore here.
Need I remind you that's really not a good justification for anything?

It's not even good lore at that. Who says we don't have populations and big budgets and influence. We cornered the tech market. We got up to supplying 40% of the enriched uranium in Jita. I run colonies on over a dozen planets and so do hundreds of other goons.

This idea that we have to be poor out in nullsec is the reason why no one bothers trying to make isk out here. Nullsec is poor, highsec is wealthy, everyone just stay in highsec and enjoy civilization. After all, nullsec must always be gimped and broken and never as good as anywhere else because of lore.

yeah the pay concord is very strange and I was more thinking of over a week or 2 week period based on activity levels, for example a total of 200 hours of active use (flying around, mining, shooting ect..)

We'll have to add "local safaris" like we do sec safaris. Or when we did a ton of mining to get industry upgrades and grav sites when the drone poop nerf hit.


And there is nothing wrong with paying for stuff with isk. Especially if we can come up with more taxable activity for people in nullsec to engage in. I'd be fine with paying a bit more to stick local chat on the IHub. I already pay over 300mil a month in taxes. I wonder if any of the highsec afk ice miners pay anything close to that to get local and concord protection.

Except we have plenty of other examples of nullsec being made harder, or other regions getting stuff that is better than nullsec, to compare.

Anoms got nerfed, so people went to do highsec L4's
1 gimped station per system, so most people do research/industry in highsec
FW got buffed to be more profitable than nullsec ratting, tons of us started farming FW
Drone alloys were removed, highsec now has the best isk/hr ores

If only that were true.

Speaking of lore...

The Pirate faction ammo should be more powerful than empire faction ammo. They are pirates after all, and not being bound by rules or regulation on war and munitions productions.

Moved from General Discussion.

Didn't know I got a reward for running away. Where is the run-away sik that gets dumped into my wallet?

Oh yah, there is none, because running away is anti-rewarding. If I stop ratting/mining to dock up when local shows a non-ally in system, I stop getting rewarded and stop making isk.

No one gets a reward for running away. And our space is not lawless space for your pew pew action. It is owned by us, and we have rules over what happens in our space. Are you looking for pew pew action in the form of fighting off our defense fleets, or are you just looking for easy soft targets and hope CCP makes it even easier for you?

Not losing your ship isn't a reward. Negative reinforcement isn't reward.

And you still haven't explained how you get from empty space with local to more people in space without local, other than more cloaky gangs. Also, you can get delayed local right now by flying into a wormhole. So why reinvent the wheel? W-space has an even smaller population than nullsec and has almost as many systems. So you have no excuse as CCP has already provided pretty much everything you are asking for in w-space. No blobs, no titan bridging, no local, no sov gringing. So go in to a wormhole and be happy.

Yes what assholes we are for wanting a little more than a 50% bump in income, if we're lucky, for exerting magnitudes more effort.

And you think this'll make nullsec bustle with life, do you?

That is how they do it in highsec, and it is where most of the minerals come from. So why would anyone bother mining in nullsec when it is just so much easier to do in in highsec?

Thanks for making me laugh. So we'll just assume CCP will finally invent the long awaited cloak hunter with the roll out of delayed local in nullsec.

You know what happens when you _assume_, right?

How about they don't make a cloak hunter, because w-space doesn't seem to need one, and so many people asking for no-local are asking specifically so their covops cloaked ship can't ever be found. You know, so they live up to their name and allow for genuine hit-n-run guerrilla warfare.


Give us all the ice and the highest end minerals, and no, you will not be able to find our cloaky gangs and we won't find yours, and everyone just gets to stumble around blindly hunting absolutely nothing.

If they remove local in 0.0 they should do it in high sec as well make it a across the board thing.

whats the point in having it in highsec when its used more in lowsec and 0.0, if they remove it, it should be for everywhere

It makes the same sense in nullsec as it does in highsec. They all have "empires". You might be able to make this argument for NPC nullsec, but even those pirates have gates and stations.

Sov nullsec has all the wealth of empire, and is actually meant to have even more. We have better ore (even though the market doesn't think so), we have better planets, and moons to mine, and we even get ships and weapons that are unavailable in highsec. We generate a ton of wealth and we actually have to pay hundreds of millions per system per month, to Concord of all people, for the gates and local and the other trappings of an empire. Because we are a player made empire.



If you want wilderness, a place without the trappings of empire, there are thousands of wormhole systems to go hang out in. Nullsec is not w-space. Quit talking like everything outside of highsec is supposed to be a desolate wasteland. We put a lot of isk into our space. More than tax-dodging highsec mission runners. We probably deserve these things more than they do.

The cloaked pilot is the one that has initiative on his side though.

I've seen this sort of thing play out dozens of times. People can try to set up a fleet and some bait to draw out the cloaker, but it is all on the cloaker to decloak and engage. So even when we know it is a single bomber, and have what it takes to handle it, we cannot force a confrontation. That makes the defenders impotent, because the cloaker is the one who decides when and where to attack.

Depends on how you define reward. If denying easy ratting and hauling to your enemies is a goal, then you can definitely be rewarded by parking a cloaked ship in systems and watch everyone stay docked or puts out a ton more effort to rat/haul/mine.

If you mean the opportunity cost, it might be next to nothing. I make a lot of my isk trading and doing industry stuff with alts. If I put my main in a bomber, park it in an enemy systems, maybe kill a couple soft targets so they think I'm serious, it costs me nothing and cost them a lot in lost revenue. I'll still keep building and trading in the background.

Then I'll wait until they get tired of hiding and move any way. I guess some people are willing to be patient and some people aren't.

I hear there's this thing called "wormholes". I think you can mine there, too.

The best part of these threads is you can pick up where ever you want, because it is just a cycle of the same tired arguments.